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@Kitty4D on the B-Chain
just my adventures with the blockchain, web3, cryptocurrencies, and NFTs
Developer, Content Creator, NFT Hodler, Degen, Former Camgirl
aka @Kitty4DHD, @kitty4Do, $kitty4d
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Post by kitty4d

2021-12-19
• 9 months ago
here's another question: our content/profiles are able to be shown on any node. we have no control if they include us in their feeds, though they choose whether or not to include us. my question is - can nodes choose to show advertising alongside our posts and profiles? (i assume there's nothing that would stop them from it but i'm not certain)
StarGeezer Profile Photo hugetiny Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo hugetiny Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo hugetiny Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo hugetiny Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo hugetiny Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo hugetiny Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo hugetiny Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo hugetiny Profile Photo hugetiny Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo Zagreus Profile Photo TheCharlieBrown Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo TheCharlieBrown Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo TheCharlieBrown Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo TheCharlieBrown Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo Sandirose Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo Sandirose Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo Sandirose Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo Sandirose Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo Sandirose Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo Sandirose Profile Photo Sandirose Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo Sandirose Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo kitty4D Profile Photo AdamAndAria Profile Photo
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StarGeezer Profile Photo
StarGeezer
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
Any node could choose to run adverts to support running costs. These could also use insights from user/creator activities on chain. 👍
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hugetiny Profile Photo
hugetiny
2021-12-19
• 9 months ago
If you log into another node and go to settings you see a button to delete your personal information. I assume that deletes you from that node. So there's that. Ads on social aren't usually tied to a single post, they appear in stream. Your content doesn't have a 1:1 mapping with an ad. Your post is only a fraction of the content supporting any given ad. But yeah, if you don't delete your profile presumingly your content can be monetized.
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kitty4D
2021-12-19
• 9 months ago
it prevents your posts from appearing on that node? when deleting personal info? or just wipes your email/phone number which are not sent in the blockchain? (i read this, that these are the node-specific user data points, though there was the possibility of adding it to the blockchain if such a need arose) and a node can pull posts individually. they can query for #cooking posts and make it look like they have a custom blogging site and these are their writers. and put ads on each post page. then they just do better SEO if necessary, and bam.
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hugetiny Profile Photo
hugetiny
2021-12-19
• 9 months ago
that's a good point of queuing for specific topics. I honestly don't know what that button does. I assumed it deleted you from the node, but that's based on nothing.
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kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
regardless that's a choice a node makes. but i am sure it's to comply with those EU requirements i think you had mentioned. and since there is no personal info asked for elsewhere, a node can just not ask for email or phone and then i guess not have to show that link to comply. i think it was you.. and if i recall there was still a question about how it would fly if someone uses their name as username or makes posts that include personal data. hell i don't even know where to find TOS here, are there none because it's decentralized even though not yet
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hugetiny Profile Photo
hugetiny
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
yeah, it's the right to be forgotten. I think my posts about my cat's butthole fall under that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten That's why I assumed the button in settings would remove you from a node.
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kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
i'll look at the diamondapp codebase on github and try to find out right now
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hugetiny Profile Photo
hugetiny
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
Let me know what you find. I saw this earlier (the last two comments) it seems to be unresolved https://github.com/deso-protocol/core/issues/111
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kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
yeah, that's why i was also kinda wondering if there was some TOS that i don't remember in the sign-up process or some kind of "i understand that any PII that i post by virtue of how the blockchain works are forever in the blockchain" checkbox. ~presumably~ someone including big investors would have made sure PII included in posts is something they can't ~currently~ get in trouble for, but it'd be cool to have some official clarification or just host all nodes in the ocean maybe
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kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
actually, sorry, where is that button found on the diamondapp website?
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hugetiny Profile Photo
hugetiny
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
Settings>Delete Personal Information It may just be email, there's an email field on that page too
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kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
where is Settings? are you using the app or the website? i don't see any kind of Settings link on the website
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hugetiny Profile Photo
hugetiny
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
Sorry, I thought you were fucking with me, then I realized I was looking at bitclout not diamond app. I can't find setting in Diamond app
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kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
i did just test a URL out and https://diamondapp.com/settings does go to a page, but it just has fields for email address and theme
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hugetiny Profile Photo
hugetiny
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
you can see it here https://bitclout.com/settings
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kitty4D Profile Photo
kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
interesting that diamondapp omits that, when it's based on the bitcloud codebase i can't imagine it deletes all of your posts, i think it might only delete that information shown on the settings page (which is just email) because diamondapp and bitclout pull from the same node i believe? i dunno, i'll see if i can find out what that button does
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kitty4D
2021-12-19
• 9 months ago
i can create a "hugetiny's big blog of thoughts" and just query for your posts and put ads on each post page. and remember- DeSo makes it EASY for anyone to do this! that's the beauty of it..........
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hugetiny Profile Photo
hugetiny
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
I would be stoked if someone monetized my post about my cat licking its butt, though
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hugetiny Profile Photo
hugetiny
2021-12-19
• 9 months ago
Ok, you've sold me on this dystopia
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kitty4D Profile Photo
kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
now, if that site includes the standard login-with-deso and the ability to send you diamonds etc., maybe it's good for you. but they could just display the post as far as i know. maybe when a node shows data, they're putting money back into the system, i just don't know all of these details. i know nodes .. collect transaction fees? but is there something they do that costs them money as well? are they spending money to pull data from the feed or only to perform actions? i don't know! there may be a completely bright side to all these thoughts.
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Zagreus
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
Yes, you are correct, I'm currently writing an analysis of this flaw. Here is my post that sets up the problem. There is no way to fix this problem given the protocol of the DeSo blockchain. All information on chain creates a collective and open commons that anyone can query and optimize as they see fit. If one runs their own node, then no one can prevent a node operator from doing as they please in terms of displaying said data short of popular policing. https://bitclout.com/posts/6170e6db70eaf58b776cb1f340d47f8d2a07a5f1ddeb31bfaf35d407a6109d1d?feedTab=Following&tab=posts
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TheCharlieBrown Profile Photo
TheCharlieBrown
2021-12-19
• 9 months ago
Nothing that I know of that would stop the ability of showing ads.
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kitty4D Profile Photo
kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
does it cost a node anything other than the cost of running a server to pull data from the b-chain? do you know? i heard they collect something like transaction fees? but that sounds like they're making money. are they putting any money back into the system in some way BESIDES potentially allowing new people to get into the ecosystem and buy/spend DeSo? (since they don't have to let people login to DeSo i am sure)
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TheCharlieBrown Profile Photo
TheCharlieBrown
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
Most of them I have looked at do make some kind of fee. If you can't make any money at some point then there is no incentive to actually run a node or any website.
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kitty4D Profile Photo
kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
because if they do implement the "login to deso" i understand they would collect fees off of transactions initiated by users. but those fees come from money that is also going back into DeSo. but if they don't even allow users to login on their node, and just display data- this is why i'm asking
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kitty4D Profile Photo
kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
no, my question was do they put any money back into the system, as a way of paying to pull content. so that if they don't decide to even implement a "login to deso" and just simply pull data out, that they're still helping DeSo out.
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TheCharlieBrown Profile Photo
TheCharlieBrown
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
Money back in no. but it could be giving back in another way. It would really depend on how the content is used. I don't actually pull information for my website but I do utilize some of the content. https://cryptobite.io/ I use the content to inform and bring in more people.
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kitty4D Profile Photo
kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
but only if the site implements "login with DeSo" would it put money back. or sure it can promote DeSo but that is a choice. i was just hoping there were fees to the node for pulling the data, but that those fees would then be offset enough to provide them with a net profit once they have "login with deso" implemented etc. as basically an incentive to provide the DeSo-specific features and a deterrant to just taking from DeSo without giving back.
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kitty4D
2021-12-19
• 9 months ago
a little scary, that we could be providing copy for any kind of site that people spawn up wanting to profit off of advertisements or affiliate links a faucet of free content i might be wrong though, that's why i'm asking :D
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TheCharlieBrown Profile Photo
TheCharlieBrown
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
As far as providing free content for a site it doesn't matter if you post here or somewhere else. People scrape information from websites all the time to use for website content. Your locked content is a little different depending on how the site is set up on security. People scrape celebrity information and post from all of the social platforms for sites.
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kitty4D Profile Photo
kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
yeah absolutely. i didn't say it in my post- why i came to wanting to ask the question is due to having read material at some point where it was said that we "own our profiles" and that might be opposite to the reality i think people should be more aware of this if they are posting extremely long posts onto the blockchain, since those would be more sought-after by someone wanting free content. using a deso site where your post is off-blockchain allows you to dmca someone who copies your content, but here i would imagine you're giving up that right.
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kitty4D Profile Photo
kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
@Sandirose, since you have very long on-chain posts, have you looked into if you can DMCA a site that took one of your posts and used it in a manner where it is not presented as part of a DeSo feed? just curious. and how would you feel, even if it is still presented as part of the feed, if there were ads alongside it? let's say ~pornographic ads~ just to make it fun. do you care at all, or are you aware of the chance and it's just part of the game if it happens? what if someone put a different user's name + a way to send THEM diamonds with your post?
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Sandirose Profile Photo
Sandirose
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
Decentralization isn't the utopia people think it is. There are drawbacks and limitations and it's important users understand them. I'm an open book these days and I post freely knowing that my words will be out there forever and available to everyone (I acknowledged this on day one when I wrote my bio). I've stayed away from gated content to date as I'd like my posts to be available to everyone everywhere so I don't care where they show up. I hadn't specifically thought about a site posting an ad beside my content but I'm sure I'd care. I can only control what I say. I cannot control how others associate it. Someone could copy and paste my posts (it's happened before) and post as their own content. Obviously it's easy to prove I'm the originator if I know the post exists. Whether I can or would take any legal action is a different story. I would think DCMA rights still exist if content was used in a manner it wasn't intended by a third party.
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kitty4D Profile Photo
kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
one thing i am looking into is getting my posts and my profile pulled into a site i have control over, where i can put custom text with my profile and i can work on the SEO for it, and maybe put ads on it myself- and i'll note the content was created by me and about not intended for blah blah use and stuff. this way if someone searches for me or for keywords in my posts, i have at least some chance of controlling where a person ends up and what they see.
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Sandirose Profile Photo
Sandirose
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
I saw your post on Discord about a read only node. Is that tied to this idea?
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kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
kinda lol. was curious if there's any cost to using the b-chain to pull content by #hashtag to use with targeted ads, just to know^^ we need nodes. nodes should be rewarded. they're rewarded i think via fees on every transaction, which is an event that writes back to the b-chain. they get a % of diamonds given, etc. if they don't provide a DeSo login, and just SHOW the data (read-only), they can benefit using the data, while not giving anything back to DeSo. i know they /kinda/ are giving back by being a host but at a point it'd be redundant enough
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kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
i could be totally wrong in my understanding ofc, i asked around to try to find out for sure. i guess i would like there to be checks and balances in place that help make sure a node is providing the means by which people can be contributing to the DeSo ecosystem, and if not, that they would be paying some amount to simply use the data for whatever purpose. maybe there are. i know AI-generated content is big, maybe it's good enough where no one needs extra manmade content to shove more ads down our throats anyway? i'm being overly dramatic i know lol
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Sandirose Profile Photo
Sandirose
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
The fees go to the node operator, not back to DeSo but you are circumventing any fees with a read-only site.
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kitty4D Profile Photo
kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
yes, sorry, i might have misspoken. i know that the way it is set up is that the fees go to the operator - but the fees come from an amount that's going into DeSo at the same time, so when an operator is paid a fee it is by virtue of them having provided the means for a user to interact with the blockchain at their node. that gives an incentive to providing a way for your node to facilitate something of value going back in to the whole system. but there's no deterrant to simply taking the data and not giving. is this actually a problem? dunno :)
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Sandirose Profile Photo
Sandirose
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
The fees just go back go the operator. I don’t know that I would say they go back info they ecosystem unless the operator liquidates or invests then to the ecosystem somehow.
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kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
ty so much for talking with me! i am of course happy to keep talking, i just don't want you to spend so much time only engaging with me and my ~scary~ idea of the evil marketing node operator who is looking to cause much pain to our ~sweet innocent~ content. 😊
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Sandirose Profile Photo
Sandirose
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
I’m always happy to chat and flush out ideas. I’m not entirely sure the node you are contemplating is harmful to the ecosystem. Anyone could scrape the data.
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kitty4D Profile Photo
kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
sorry, when i say goes back into the ecosystem, i mean - a user gives a like, a diamond, makes a comment.. read-only, those actions are not possible, so nothing of value goes back into the system. read-only, value is only taken from the system. except node == redundancy, helps verify data, important things been writing too long now, i'm not going anywhere else with this particular line of thought :) i think the issue with lack of clarity / possibly some misleading RE: ownership is the important thing. my mind dreaming up evil nodes is not really :D
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Sandirose Profile Photo
Sandirose
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
It’s not quite a percentage but yes, there is effectively a gas fee on everything written to the blockchain.
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Sandirose Profile Photo
Sandirose
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
That’s an interesting idea. Technically you shouldn’t have to say content is created by you (because blockchain). You’re just talking about creating a node with a certain interface to display content in a way that you want
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kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
you don't actually have to have a node to retrieve and display content from the blockchain. but if you are a node, then i just wonder if it makes you a co-owner of the data alongside the other nodes. someone scraping a node or using the same API and altering data/showing w/ads is something either we as creators or the node could have removed i believe. i don't know if node owners have to sign any kind of agreement or accept terms that tells them what they can/can't do. when we post to twitter, they have a TOS for sure for us that spells it all out.
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kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
yeah, i think right now the developers on $DeSo are people who are care about @DeSo, and it's just easy to feel swept away that no one is creating ad-filled garbage sites that pull in our content - but, and it's weird to say, we also hope that it eventually happens. i just wish there were better safeguards baked in. i'm ok with it, i wouldn't post if i weren't, but i think the idea of "owning your profile" is simply wrong and it shouldn't be in any marketing ever- since the b-chain owns our profile and posts. and the b-chain is free to everyone.
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Sandirose Profile Photo
Sandirose
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
I completely agree. I think this is a false narrative. No one entity can sell my data but once I put something out in the world, it’s free for anyone to use at least from a data perspective (like for targeted ads, etc).
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kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
i guess what i originally meant before my adhd kicked in- if we can't control where our posts are shown, what rights can we for sure reasonably still expect to have? putting ads with our content, if we for sure retained ownership, doesn't seem like it would normally be allowed? i can tune in to the faucet of music on a radio station, but i can't play that while streaming myself playing a video game. i guess maybe the blockchain should help us prove ownership by linking to our deso account with a timestamp? i just kinda would like this stuff explicit
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kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
sorry i kinda went on a tangent there lol
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kitty4D
2021-12-20
• 9 months ago
this is what i want to know for sure though. if we post on the b-chain with an understanding that we are giving up rights, i wanna know explicitly. and the thing about blockchain being uneditable, makes it hard to later change a post's visibility to newly created nodes, i know ~maybe~ a blockchain just makes sense for finances with historical data that should be immutable, and another abstract data type could be envisioned for social media kidz u thought gettin bullied was bad b4, wait til it's on 30 different nodez. don't like it? make ur own node~
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AdamAndAria
2021-12-19
• 9 months ago
Yeah the whole shtick that we own our content is bs, the truth is that everyone owns our content
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      Body: "it prevents your posts from appearing on that node? when deleting personal info? \n\nor just wipes your email/phone number which are not sent in the blockchain? (i read this, that these are the node-specific user data points, though there was the possibility of adding it to the blockchain if such a need arose)\n\nand a node can pull posts individually. they can query for #cooking posts and make it look like they have a custom blogging site and these are their writers. and put ads on each post page. then they just do better SEO if necessary, and bam.",
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